Curse

AndrewSX · Mar 16, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

Wut? Panic for the casters inept for the melee... Works like a charm

I mean that the Necro SS isn't good combined with Panic + Ineptitude, that shutdown both attacks and spells.

Never said that Panic + Ineptitude is bad.

aspi · Mar 16, 2011, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

I mean that the Necro SS isn't good combined with Panic + Ineptitude, that shutdown both attacks and spells.

Never said that Panic + Ineptitude is bad.

Ah me and my big mouth

Really should learn to read before commenting.

Agreed btw SS is one of the worst elites to bring with those mesmers elites. Might be ok if you take it yourself to punish the melee but heroes most likely will put it on the paniced mob :/

AndrewSX · Mar 16, 2011, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Yes, the real problem of SS on heroes is:
1-Targeting
2-The fact that the 2 Mez heroes generally shutdown any action, making SS a waste of elite slot.

Also, there aren't sooo much good curse elites to swap SS. Feast of corruption isn't that bad, Pain of disenchantement/corrupt ench are nice utility and pressure skills, but there's so much else. Maybe Soul bind to damage healers, Plague sig(using Foul feast).

Jeydra · Mar 16, 2011, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix Infelicium

In nm it is overkill, but in HM it removes alot of pressure while SS can still deal it's damage. I thought it SS+Panic+Ineptitude was bad at first until I managed to survive some of the biggest overaggro while vanquishing Jaga Moraine.

That's more of Panic + Ineptitude, not SS, however.

@Elnino - Orders with one physical, SS with Panic + Ineptitude + considerable amounts of shutdown, two healers, no Prot Spirit and two copies of Res Sig are the most glaring problems to me. I don't have the energy to fix all these problems right now though, just offering them for you to consider.

Dark-NighT · Mar 16, 2011, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I am running this setup, its not the quickest but it is one of the most stable builds ever, unless i overaggro nothing ever dies, which is good because im still working on survivor. Also did fow with it under 2 hours, no cons and it was good fun.

Vadog · Mar 16, 2011, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Now, I'm working with this and it's good imo

distilledwill · Mar 16, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadog

Now, I'm working with this and it's good imo

Again, Spiteful Spirit does NOT synergise well with the Dual Mesmer setup. If your mesmers are doing their job, your enemies will get very few spells or attacks out. Swap SS out for something else - perhaps Expel Hexes or Empathic Removal - that would mean you could take the Hex/Condition removals off the Ritualist and load a bit more damage on her (I'd go with Painful Bond).

Aly Lightningstorm · Mar 16, 2011, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Why do so many people use Jagged Bones instead of Aura of the Lich? I mean, I understand the minion multiplication part of it, but it's also nice to have strong minions that can take and deal damage on their own. Especially when you have an all caster, low armor team that shouldn't be getting hit too often by enemy melee attackers.

Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.

AndrewSX · Mar 16, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly Lightningstorm

Why do so many people use Jagged Bones instead of Aura of the Lich? I mean, I understand the minion multiplication part of it, but it's also nice to have strong minions that can take and deal damage on their own. Especially when you have an all caster, low armor team that shouldn't be getting hit too often by enemy melee attackers.

Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.

Totally agree. My Aotl MM using runes, masochism and Aotl itself can pump death magic up to 18(could be even more if using the +3 rune). At that attribute, Aotl is maintenable and create lvl 20 minions. Couple it the most simple minion evocation (animate bone horror: lvl 20 minion again) and you're done. 11 lvl 20 meat shield. Trow in Botm, taste of death, sols and some secondary or blood stuff. NO death nova.

Why? · Mar 16, 2011, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly Lightningstorm

Why do so many people use Jagged Bones instead of Aura of the Lich? I mean, I understand the minion multiplication part of it, but it's also nice to have strong minions that can take and deal damage on their own. Especially when you have an all caster, low armor team that shouldn't be getting hit too often by enemy melee attackers.

Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.

I agree, but minions are suicide bombers. AoTL & Bone Fiends are a great combo, although so is OoU/bone fiends/Vampiric Horrors.

Dzjudz · Mar 16, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

A Curses necro isn't very useful, especially as SS in a team with two mesmer (which is safe to say is the current meta). Just drop it completely and put Enfeebling Blood and Shadow of Fear on another character. They don't need high Curses at all to be useful.

You can spec an AotL necro for instance: 12+1+(1-3) DM, 10+1 SR, 8(+1) Curses.

If you need Mark of Pain as well, I'd use the SoS, with 12+1+(1-3) Channeling, 3+1 SP, 12 Curses (possible bar: SoS, Bloodsong, Spirit Siphon, Splinter Weapon, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, Mark of Pain, Optional).

Aly Lightningstorm · Mar 16, 2011, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Trow in Botm, taste of death, sols and some secondary or blood stuff. NO death nova.

I usually don't use blood of the master on heroes, because it involves health sacrifice, and the LAST thing you want to have happen is to have a full army of minions going wild in the middle of a battle. If I was going to heal them (never do, heroes usually keep a full army up no matter what) I'd use feast for the dead instead of BotM.

I do usually give them death nova though. Since the minions are going to die, no matter what. I think it's better to let them explode in the process, than to not let them explode.

AndrewSX · Mar 16, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly Lightningstorm

I usually don't use blood of the master on heroes, because it involves health sacrifice, and the LAST thing you want to have happen is to have a full army of minions going wild in the middle of a battle. If I was going to heal them (never do, heroes usually keep a full army up no matter what) I'd use feast for the dead instead of BotM.

I can agree 100% to the little risk of giving BotM to a hero, but it is the ONLY skill that can really keep alive your army. Feast kill 1 minion to heal others for 100ish, which is nice, but every 10 sec. When fighting that can't keep up your minions. Btom has same heal capabilities, but evry 2 secs.
The healt sacrifice has never been an issue since i use Aotl(and i've VQ tyria+elona+various HM stuff with it), cause heroes seems to do not spam it mindlessy, never do it while under attack(that 11 minions will absorb anyways), and if needed i give my MM Taste of death to a spike self heal. And if rarely your army go wild, they will still be enemy for your foes, so it isn't that great problem, also cause w/o Botm they fall quickly after all. About Death nova, is just that i prefer have a MM supporting his minion army/party members that wasting time to cast 1 spell endless times.

Elnino · Mar 17, 2011, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Finally some variety! (/Looking at the interesting monk bar)

P.S: SS + Panic/Ineptitude is a big nono.

You're absolutely right. I did not realize that since things were still dying so quickly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Elnino - Orders with one physical, SS with Panic + Ineptitude + considerable amounts of shutdown, two healers, no Prot Spirit and two copies of Res Sig are the most glaring problems to me. I don't have the energy to fix all these problems right now though, just offering them for you to consider.

You're underestimating the damage one warrior can do

SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit

What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged?

zwei2stein · Mar 17, 2011, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Why so much love for Panic + Ineptitude and not for Psychic Instability (4s aoe ranged kd on 7s recharge...)?

distilledwill · Mar 17, 2011, 12:30 PM // 12:30

To be perfectly honest, I haven't tried PI on a hero. But Panic is a good "fire and forget" interupt. You can have the hero cast it on a mob and have the spells come at you one at a time. Easy peasy.

PI would be nice for the KD I suppose. Might be worth a go!

Plutoman · Mar 17, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

PI is amazing, especially on a Me/Rt healer, with PI as the main. Use a couple other insp spells for energy, and it's solid.

But it does lack the damage output of Ineptitude, and the constant interruption of panic. It also lacks synergy with most other mesmer skills that do damage, except ES. If you want to use PI, use it with Panic or ES, but leave out the illusion mesmer. There's a distinct lack of synergy.

Dzjudz · Mar 17, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Shatter Hex/Enchantment 10 energy instead of 15, better optional now

.

bhavv · Mar 17, 2011, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Why so much love for Panic + Ineptitude and not for Psychic Instability (4s aoe ranged kd on 7s recharge...)?

Panic interrupts and shuts down a lot more than PI does, and Ineptitude is just heavy damage plus attack mitigation and blind.

The damage output and shutdown from the two combined is just crazy good.

Jeydra · Mar 17, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

You're underestimating the damage one warrior can do

SS was my mistake, didn't seem to matter tho but I've changed it to Icy Veins now.
Things die so quickly, I rarely encounter any deaths. I can still easily tank damage with just the prots I have. Prot Spirit is unnecessary now. Besides, Spirit Bond>Prot Spirit

What's wrong with res sigs????? It's not like there's no bosses to kill and even then, when do they ever need to be recharged?

I think the damage ouptut of one Warrior without Orders + something else > the damage output of one Warrior with Orders.

I used to think Prot Spirit is unnecessary now too until I tried to clear Ooze Pit with it, only for the three Prismatic Oozes to annihilate me.

If you die so rarely you never need Res Sig to be recharged, why do you even need Res Sigs? Why not just rely entirely on hard res?